The recent student unrest is not going to lead to any major disturbances. But because of its nature it must be taken very seriously. Firm measures must be taken against any student who creates trouble at Tiananmen Square. The rules and regulations on marches and demonstrations promulgated by the Municipal People's Government of Beijing have the force of law; they should be resolutely enforced and no concessions should be made. In the beginning, we mainly used persuasion, which is as it should be in dealing with student demonstrators. But persuasion includes application of the law. If any of them disrupt public order or violate the law, they must be dealt with unhesitatingly. When a disturbance breaks out in a place, it's because the leaders there didn't take a firm, clear-cut stand. This is not a problem that has arisen in just one or two places or in just the last couple of years; it is the result of failure over the past several years to take a firm, clear-cut stand against bourgeois liberalization. It is essential to adhere firmly to the Four Cardinal Principles; otherwise bourgeois liberalization will spread unchecked -- and that has been the root cause of the problem. But this student unrest is also a good thing, insofar as it is a reminder to us.

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How many steps should we take to complete the reform? How long will it take? I hope you will study these questions.

In the long run, grain production is very important to us. We should ensure the continued growth of agriculture through reform. As for the reform of enterprises, our chief goal is to invigorate the large and medium-sized state-owned ones.

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Today in China we are urging people to have lofty ideals and moral integrity, to become better educated and to cultivate a strong sense of discipline. Of these, the most important is to have lofty ideals. From my long political and military experience I have learned that unity is of prime importance and that to achieve unity people must have common ideals and firm convictions. Over the past several decades we have united the people on the basis of firm convictions that enabled them to struggle for their own interests. Without such convictions, there would have been no cohesion among the people, and we could have accomplished nothing.

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After a long illness Bocheng has passed away. I worked with him for a long time and knew him very well. I am deeply grieved by his death.

Bocheng joined the army when he was very young and served in it his whole life. After the Revolution of 1911 he participated in the campaigns to protect the Republic and uphold the Provisional Constitution, proving himself a valiant soldier. I still have a photograph of him taken in 1915, when he was twenty-two years old -- just in his prime. In 1916, while leading his troops in the Fengdu battle in Sichuan Province (part of the expedition against Yuan Shikai), he was struck by two bullets in the head and lost his right eye. Later he commanded countless campaigns and engagements and was wounded at least nine more times. He performed outstanding military exploits and became famous as the resourceful one-eyed general.

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I am a layman in science, but I am enthusiastic about promoting its development. China cannot advance without science. We still lag behind in this respect. You have established an international centre of science and culture -- the World Laboratory. This is an important pioneering undertaking and one that will benefit Third World countries in particular. China belongs to the Third World, so our scientists and engineers should take an active part in the work of the Laboratory.

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With regard to the question of opposing bourgeois liberalization, I am the one who has talked about it most often and most insistently. Why? First, because there is now a trend of thought among the masses, especially among the young people, in favour of liberalization. Second, because this trend has found support from the sidelines. For example, there have been some comments from people in Hong Kong and Taiwan who are opposed to our Four Cardinal Principles and who think we should introduce the capitalist system lock, stock and barrel, as if that were the only genuine modernization. What is this liberalization? It is an attempt to turn China's present policies in the direction of capitalism. The exponents of this trend are trying to lead us towards capitalism. That is why I have explained time and again that our modernization programme is a socialist one. Our decision to introduce the open policy and assimilate useful things from capitalist societies was made only to supplement the development of our socialist productive forces.

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Mike Wallace: Mr. Chairman, what do you make of Mikhail Gorbachev's recent speech in Vladivostok?

Deng Xiaoping: There is something new in Gorbachev's speech in Vladivostok, and that is why we have expressed cautious welcome to what is new and positive in it. However, his remarks also show that he has not taken a big step. Soon after Gorbachev made his speech, an official from the Foreign Ministry of the Soviet Union also made a speech that was different in tone. This shows that the Soviet authorities have to decide among themselves what policies to pursue with regard to China, so we still have to wait and see.

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During this visit to Tianjin, I should like to see your development district and have a look around the city. I'd like to see the harbour as well.

We must continue to open to the outside world. Otherwise, we shall not be able to invigorate the economy. We must never close our doors. The Development District here is very good, indeed. Since it has earned a high reputation and improved the environment for investment, foreign investors should feel confident.

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While we are correcting unhealthy tendencies and cracking down on crime, we must leave matters that fall within the scope of the law to judicial institutions; it is not appropriate for the Party to concern itself with such matters. The Party should concern itself with inner-Party discipline, leaving legal problems to the state and the government. If the Party intervenes in everything, it will not help the people understand the importance of the rule of law. This is a question of the relations between the Party and the government, of the political structure of the country. I think we should raise this question at the Thirteenth National Party Congress next year and try to straighten it out.

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